FROGMIND Feedback and Questions Thread.

Discussion in 'GENERAL DISCUSSION' started by grandmort, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. grandmort

    grandmort Elite Member Moderator

    FROGMIND Feedback and Questions Thread.

    Feedback on DAY II - NIGHT

    Thank you Johannes and Juhana for being so interested in what the fans have to say, for visiting here at and for requesting feedback for this wonderful game you have created. I believe as developers you would like to know where we think there could be improvement, what is it that we don't like and so forth, so in a sense most of this post will focus on the "negative" (or dynamic inconsistencies as I like to call them) since all the positive stuff has already been said (I think this Fansite speaks for itself, we LOVE the game!).

    But, for the "quick" positive anyway; this 10 new NIGHT levels for DAY II are just awesome! Sound, art, it's all perfect and gorgeous, these levels match beautifully the rest of the game, yet still feel fresh and interesting, introducing new mechanics while keeping the overall feel of what came before.

    Now, for the negative, I'm reviewing DAY II - NIGHT on a per-level basis and listing what I think is not quite right. Please keep in mind that I pursue high scores, high counts for clone savings, if I come across as a bit too picky or whining it is only because you've got me so addicted and dedicated to saving clones, more clones, time and again… Basically, it's all your fault! ;)

    Also, I'd like the input of my fellow players and members of these forums, we might disagree on some of the problems I list here, please fire away and post on this thread as well. As long as this conversation stays civil and constructive I welcome all comments.

    Here we go:

    DARKNESS - 3 things:
    1/ The clocks: interesting concept, though by third one the needles are moving so fast it's hard to control and anticipate a clear path, I guess that's acceptable but a bit frustrating when you miss the mark and lose many clones or just can't pass.
    2/ The expanding black spheres: those are a pain, if you too small you get squish, if you come across them in a square form you get trapped (glitch?) in the decor, if you freeze time at some earlier point you can't pass them as it seems they are always expended (yet you leave us space to pass small. I tried 4 times, somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
    3/ The rolling metal wheel: this is the big one for this level; the wheel never brakes off in a consistent manner, therefore jinxing more than often superb runs because it will either squish clones or simply block the narrow passage ahead. In earlier levels many explosive elements will usually follow a set path to land away and clear passage for what comes next.

    LAZERS - 1 thing:
    1/ Lazers = I hate them :mrgreen: This level works well for the most part. A bit too much "lazers action" in my opinion but that's because I get really frustrated when I get burn in a "Survive with one try" attempt.

    CLONEFEST - 1 thing:
    1/ The last lazer. Here again an element with inconsistent behavior. More than often, while properly stuck to the ceiling (and while one made sure all the weight of one's clones flipped it quickly), it will still redirect its lazer beam downward to burn you and /or block passage. When it sticks upward like the first one before it (like it supposed to), it still drops at time randomly or - and that's the most frustrating situation - simply and for no apparent reason burns a few clones on they way out to the exit tube. This last lazers just ruined an 81 run for me not an hour ago, I hate this guy!

    ORBITING - 2 things:
    1/ The multiplying triangles: here too they show inconsistent behavior. I would say that's quite alright for such a level (very, very cool concept BTW) but they grew, multiplied and blocked my passage on more than one occasion even though I was carefully maneuvering around them.
    2/ The fish-like creatures right after that. They are just a pain and almost impossible to predict accurately; a single mistake and you are either squished or sent back to the left of the screen for a checkpoint restart. Not fun at all.

    DOMINO - A flawless level

    BITS - Another almost flawless level (pssst, I hate lazers!)

    QUADRATIC - 1 thing (it has to do with lazers):
    1/ I'm not sure why those last lazers burn us on the way out. After grabbing both accelerators it doesn't matter if one goes high or low, one will loose a few clones. Frustrating. I just re-tried it and watched the replay in slow-mo, from 27 down to 20 in the home stretch. Not fair as it seems there is nothing you can do to avoid that. Burn baby burn!

    FLUFFY - 1 thing / glitches:
    1/ There is trick here to get 31+ clone saved, but it creates glitches in the final stretch. It's no big deal and actually spices things up a bit but I thought I would let you know.
    A very cool level (though personally I'm not too keen on manning the vehicle at the end but it works). The fluffy matter is amazing, how you guys use the tools at your disposal for physics (Cocos2D / Box2D engine) is amazing!

    ECLIPSE - Almost flawless (did I mention I hate lazers?)

    OBLIVION - 1 thing:
    1/ The whole level is a bit of a letdown and I, for one, think it is not as challenging as FINAL FRONTIER and that's too bad.
    There is not much going on (a lot of empty sections) and when there is… Well, let's not mention lazers! :lol:

    Okay, other random thoughts and observations:

    -Frame rate issue iPad Air:
    Apple A7 chip doesn't handle BADLAND so well on many areas. Is it because of the screen resolution and high pixel count? It works flawlessly on the iPhone 5 A6 chip.

    -FINAL FRONTIER achievement:
    There is confusion as to where we need to save 2 clones for those hidden achievements. FINAL FRONTIER, OBLIVION, or both?
    If FINAL FRONTIER, both ogster and I passed with 2 clones weeks ago, yet the achievement is not unlocked. Can this be fixed? I really don't want to have to redo it because I know I will fail over and over again. Why, because I've done it once and I'll be nervous that I will fail the second time, hence I why will fail (story of my gaming life!)

    -Menu feedback, pause area:
    In the pause menu, and especially for the iPad, I would have the CHECKPOINT command on the left, right below the settings wheel. Much more intuitive, I have large hands and long fingers and even though it's a pain to pause and reach for it (you could also have it right above RESUME).
    Also, speaking of pausing, while the PAUSE button size is small and not distracting at all, can the input area be made larger? It doesn't seem to be a problem on the iPhone but on the iPad I have to go at it several times before actually being able to pause the game.

    -Would both of you be okay with an interview from this community, for this community?

    -Take a vacation and smoke each a big fat cigar, you guys deserve it! But… Can we hope for DAY III someday, maybe roughly a year from now? We'll help. For free. Clones need savings!

  2. Wheat1328

    Wheat1328 Ultimate Survivor Moderator

    Well said grandmort! Good idea for a place to gather "critiques"

    First, let it be known that this is one of the best games I've played, THE best on iOS.

    Second, I'm 100% ok with the "random" things that happen, as frustrating as they can be at times. That's part of a physics based game and I think the developers did an outstanding job at creating predictable moments of unpredictability, if that makes any sense.

    So here are my "critiques" so far...

    My first bit of feedback I've said elsewhere but 2500 clones seems a bit out of reach for all but about 2-3 players. Currently 0.00004% of players (aka Matt33 and ogster!) have achieved this. :lol: But I don't see that going up by much.

    There's a few glitchy things with completing levels in one try, but nothing major. A little colored egg or something on the screen with the missions would be really really nice to signify it has been completed in one try. Going back though all the levels that didn't have a "complete in 1 try" mission was kind of a pain, but I made it. :)

    On DARKNESS you can get stuck inside...the level I guess I'd call it. It happens on both of the expanding ball things at the top. Found this when I stayed a square and then got hung-up near the top on the second set and was pushed into the abyss. I've managed to get pushed into the abyss as a circle too so that's what makes me think it's a glitch and not a "penalty" for being square.

    I'll continue to add to this post as I things come up
  3. ogster

    ogster Elite Member

    day 2 night is a superb job in designing. i don't want to take away from that, but was it really designed to be difficult? most, if not all, levels have element(s) of greater-than-usual unpredictability. there are a lot of stages where the player needs more luck than skill to navigate because the obstacles behave too randomly. i noticed too that there is a heavier burden on being precise. precision in placement, maneuver, speed, size, etc. they're not too difficult but still offer unexpected challenges in clone saving and missions. i'm not at all complaining, but rather saying that i think the level pack is a fitting end to day 2.

    my only beef is in OBLIVION. a lot has been said that it wasn't as hard as one would expect after FINAL FRONTIER. i agree. but what really lets me down is a certain stage in there that is not very friendly to an ipod touch 4th gen. i have completed all missions except one. i have survived all levels in one try except one. i have earned all achievements except one (well, maybe not yet save 2 here). i really want to be able to survive OBLIVION in one try. the part where i freeze time a the second time and navigate around the small projectiles. when i unfreeze time, all hell breaks loose again and my device cannot handle it that my game stalls. i have to rely on luck to get through because my device cannot respond properly.

    and lastly, i don't think the developers should stop here. i know that day 2 would be a hard act to follow. i hear talk that day 2 night is the end. and i don't hear any word from frogmind that there will be a day 3 except that there will be more updates. if indeed day 3 is not part of their future plans, maybe they can consider coming up with one last level pack. one for the books. the level pack to end all level packs. not dawn, noon, dusk nor night. just 10 more levels not for the fainthearted. a kick ass level pack that will once and for all cement BADLAND in the list of all time greatest ios games.
  4. grandmort

    grandmort Elite Member Moderator

    Thanks for the great feedback ogster!

    Yep, exactly those dynamic inconsistencies I was talking about.

    Wow, I feel for you. I could see that. All canons parts are even demanding and creating slight frame rate issues on a brand new iPad Air.

    That is an awesome idea, maybe we "enter" the giant eye for some insanely difficult and nightmarish levels. Or we go into another dimension of some kind. Basically the scrolling background would be something entirely new, not seen before in the previous 80 levels.

    After DAWN, NOON, DUSK and NIGHT, possible names for this 10-pack: ETHER, ELSEWHERE (a reference to Kid Chameleon, one hard platformer on the SEGA Genesis), LAST DAY (or DAY ZERO), HOME (because that's where you would return to), BEYOND, etc. I could keep going all night, love the idea!
  5. ogster

    ogster Elite Member

    i like BEYOND. no man's time? dimentia?

    but anyway, who wudda guessed, i did oblivion in one try. had to use a crafty trick. but weird that in gamecenter, it says i've completed 240 in the missions leaderboard but but doesn't show up in the achievements list, neither does completing 80 levels in one try. oh well, time to save 2 in oblivion then.
  6. FBI Light Rock

    FBI Light Rock Techno Fury Moderator Beta tester

    I think I'm going to be the awkward one here commenting about something else quite dumb, but anyway...

    There should be an option to play this game in non-retina resolution, although most iDevices support them today. By default, only non-retina devices run this game in non-retina resolution, but I'm requesting retina devices to be able to run this game in BOTH kinds of resolutions. The reason for this is simply just to improve performance on low-end devices. I have an iPod 4G and it's having trouble running this game; a bit of frame rate issues (Like when spinner power-up is active). The main reason though, is the inconsistency with tappings; my device can't recognize too many taps at one time so it is impossible to fly completely horizontally, making some levels very difficult (E.g. Blush, Districts). I also can't make delicate movements, which caused me to fail the Districts portion to navigate through the floating poison spikeballs area in square form many times, ruining my attempt to finish the survive with 2/3 tries.

    I don't think it's asking for very much? Such a feature should be easy to implement. Many of you don't need such an option, but understand that most of you have newer and better devices while I don't have that luxury to do so.

    Btw, ogster, you are playing on iPod 4G too? That's your only device you play BADLAND? Does it have these issues I've mentioned? If your device doesn't, there's only one explanation: My device is jailbroken and I have quite a lot of tweaks running on my device. If you don't have such issues, I can try rebooting my device in Exit Safe Mode (No tweaks will run in this mode, and apps for jailbreak will not work neither, so it's like running a default jailed iDevice).
  7. ogster

    ogster Elite Member

    yep, i play on the ipod touch 4g too. i sometimes play on my nephew's ipad. the ipad offers an obviously smoother gameplay. it responds better and has no problem with framerate issues. but, i don't think it offers a big advantage in clone saving efforts other than letting me see things easier.

    my device isn't jailbroken, so that's a clue. i also shut all other apps down before i play but not really sure if that helps. when game starts to stall, i reboot and/or connect to charger.

    it's not so much that it's easier to play on an ipad that it is more comfortable is all. my two cents.
  8. FBI Light Rock

    FBI Light Rock Techno Fury Moderator Beta tester

    Cool, I'll try booting my device in Exit Safe Mode with Badland being the only running app and see how my mission completed count and clone count can rise. ;)
  9. Wheat1328

    Wheat1328 Ultimate Survivor Moderator

    It'd be nice if the leaderboards got fixed up. There's an obvious hacker at the top of the TOTAL. Matt33, ogster, and I don't show up in DAY I. And there's a couple more hackers in DAY II at the top.
  10. FBI Light Rock

    FBI Light Rock Techno Fury Moderator Beta tester

    Rather, you would wish BADLAND had its own leaderboards, and completely scrapped GameCenter. It's full of hackers and will always be. It should have its own server to host the leaderboards. I'm particularly impressed with the leaderboards for Phoenix HD. It even allows location - specific scores, so you can travel the world and beat players everywhere, in different cities, countries, continents, and of course the whole world. Having a specialized server allowed Firi Games to quickly dethrone hacked scores. Here are a few screenshots of the leaderboards of Phoenix HD to allow you to understand what I'm talking about.
  11. Wheat1328

    Wheat1328 Ultimate Survivor Moderator

    Yeah, that would be the ultimate. Then android and other platforms would be included. I really wish they'd do something like that but I'd be surprised to see it.
  12. ogster

    ogster Elite Member

    you could also wish that transister is a beta tester and that a new level set is coming.

    it sure would be nice if frogmind had its own leaderboards. the games developer, donut games, has a simple world leaderboard that does the job. its games are also gamecenter intergrated but probably just to boost sales. their own leaderboards are hackfree and more complete as far as i know.
  13. FBI Light Rock

    FBI Light Rock Techno Fury Moderator Beta tester

    Just tried it today. No performance improvement. :( I think my iTouch 4G needs to retire from playing games soon, after I hopefully get my dream iPad Mini Retina. My iPod is already 2 years old and I use it quite a bit for purely gaming.
  14. FBI Light Rock

    FBI Light Rock Techno Fury Moderator Beta tester

    Other than that, I just came up with a few cool ideas for subsequent updates!

    First one is a simple idea but I think it may spice up things a bit. It's called Mirror Mode. Basically, all BADLAND levels also have a mirrored version, which means the screen progresses from right to left (So does your clones), everything else constant (No level changes). It should be quite easy to programme, though I'm not sure how different the experience may be. Mirror Mode should only be unlocked for a particular day after it's completed.

    Next one is an idea for Day III. Basically, something similar to time stopper, but this one is a button switch that will reverse the flow of the level (Screen moves to the left instead of to the right and vice versa). However, the catch is your clones don't change direction of travel, and have to rely on roller power-ups, blowers and mines to follow the reverse direction (right to left). I'm quite sure this will spice up things A LOT! :) However, the only problem is that checkpoints may be a problem, since it must only be placed after the entire back and forth movement section. This may be frustrating to some who feel the checkpoint gap is too large. (On the other hand, of course you can skip this section, but why would you in your determination to complete it?)
  15. ShiV

    ShiV True Gamer

    Question; Will this thread remain active in these new forums? It's been a while someone posted here but since there's been a change between the forums it might be a good way to report things (bugs/glitches/strange things) more directly to Frogmind.

    (I ask this since I've sent out quite a lengthy email last Monday regarding several bugs/glitches and a few point-outs. I understand you are busy men so it might take some time before things are read, it's more that I hope it won't get lost after a while ;) If this topic would remain to keep its function then I could also copy/paste that email into it).
  16. n0phun

    n0phun Master of Disaster Moderator

    What funtion? ;-) There never were replies from anyone from Frogmind here. But please copy/paste your email here. Is there alreaydy mention of the weird changes from the last update that changed some levels so that it is not longer possible to score like before? (Sleepy, Fluffy, etc.) We should put a list together of all of them.Not all were mentioned in their own topic, so I need to search for the posts.
  17. ShiV

    ShiV True Gamer

    I've mentioned it a bit yes, but didn't fully make a list of it in there. Anyway, since I don't have a reply on the email yet and I'm afraid it might be overseen otherwise, here it is:


    Dear Frogmind,

    I've been playing Badland for over a year now, first for free at Android (Samsung Galaxy SIII, no possibility for me back then to buy the game), and since July on Windows Phone (Nokia Lumia 930) where I finally could pay you, highly deserved! Been enjoying your game a LOT, actually a bit too much perhaps since only on Windows Phone I now already have 700+ hours of playtime. Playing that much gives some rewards though in time, now on 3rd place in the spreadsheet from the forums, with 3441 clones saved.

    Anyhow, in this playtime some things have been noticed, and some other questions arose as well.

    • I believe there is a bug in the Windows Phone version. At least, I've had this checked by Chico Mello on iOS and he didn't notice this, and neither did I see it on Android. The bug I mean . Recorded this a while back (if you have some spare time, you might also want to have a look at the other recordings I made in my channel, might be some surprises there :] ), to ask if other versions suffered from the same thing. Haven't got any info on Blackberry thus far, but my guess is this is Windows Phone only. This is the same bug as a person called Honza Spáčil messaged you about on the 26th of march at Facebook. With this bug stones shot from these canons don't react like stones anymore once they have hit something. Once they hit something they lose a lot of their velocity, but sturdy travel along until they hit something else again, and will move into the direction where they bounce towards. If you look at Straitorden playing Speedball (around 1:00) and Grandmort playing Time you see that those stones fall down, like stones normally react. In my video they act strange. Also they shoot through the cover around the 3rd speedup at Speedball where you're normally are protected from it, and just after they suddenly go through that wheel.
      • I saw this bug in the next levels, might even be more: Speedball, Time, Saw, Snappy Crash, Robotic. Both in singleplayer levels as in coop.
    • There is still one remaining bug in the achievement list. The hidden achievement where the tip says Hint: Dominate in COOP appears to be broken. There are still none who received this. The others appear to work all for now, I myself have 74/77 achievements, missing the before said one and 300 missions and 3000 clones (both very close though).
    • There are also a couple of impossible things in coop:
      • Day 1 Sticky Bounce: Collect all powerups. This one is impossible in coop, since at the part somewhere in the middle of the level where you become sticky to get through the saws you just took a size-up. In doing so, you will be too big to let a clone take the size-down in between the saws. So it's impossible to take all powerups.
      • Day 2 Gadgets: Collect all powerups. The sticky powerup that's found at the end of this level in singleplayer is gone in coop, making it impossible to take the powerups hidden just under the last saw from this level.
      • And I've heard (didn't experience this myself since I didn't do these yet) from someone playing on iOS that both Day 2 - Clonecubes: Hit nothing and Doomsday - Clonetron: Hit nothing are glitched as well. The one I've heard this from says he made it through the levels hitting really nothing, but didn't get the mission-egg for it. Don't know myself whether he accidentally did hit something with one of the clones, or that it really is glitched.
    • While playing on Android I enjoyed the online possibilities a lot, in seeing what place you are etc. Is there a possibility something like this can also be done on Windows Phone? I would be happy with something through the X-box app already, or is it perhaps even possible to let all ranking systems join into 1 system, so all Android, iOS, Windows Phone and Blackberry players will be able to join?
    • Sometimes I still play the Android version a bit. About this one: the limits of scores in the online rankings have been passed by several people already, can these be altered to make accurate scores possible again?
    • Another thing that's been bugging me (and several others) about the online rankings at Android: A few hackers seem to have found it. Hasil Paudyal is the biggest fraud, with having 1000 clones saved on both Doomsday and Daydream (both packs don't even have 1000 clones in each of the 10 levels...). Also compared to him a while back and he didn't even have the achievement back then for having played 10 hours. Now he hacked it and it says he has ALL achievements. And then there's some Russian name, who has 273 clones saved at Daydream. Believe this is a hacker as well or there is a bug somewhere in the leaderboard from Android that counted his clones as a too big number.
    • Last question: is it necessary to make edits in levels in later updates unless before a change a level was unplayable? I ask this since this happened several times, i.e. Clonespikes, Bad Music, Sleepy, Fluffy. Most changes have lead to new situations where new players won't get to make as many clonesaves as players who did those levels in a previous version. This makes some totals unreachable, what from a competitive viewpoint sometimes isn't that great ;) .

    Long list, hope I'm of help with this, so you guys will only make the game even more better! Hope you continue in bringing quality like this (either in Badland or something else), I'm looking forward for what's to come!

    Thanks for reading, and always having done such tremendous work.



    /Edit: Edited the youtube/everyplay movies into BB-code otherwise they would mess up the page since they now automatically get transferred into embedded movies.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  18. Straitorden

    Straitorden Well-Known Member

    Great stuff, ShiV. Support the petition
  19. freezeepop1

    freezeepop1 New Member

    Dear frogmind,

    I recently purchased the premium version on my kindle fire hd, however, it will not allow me to continue it says I need to buy either the premium pack or the 2.99 thing to unlock the next 30 or so levels. When I try to rebuy premium, it says I already purchased it. Could you please explain?
  20. Kati

    Kati Member Frogmind

    Whoa thanks ShiV, we'll start right away to fix stuff up! I'll answer to your email when we are ready :)

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